Stock sound

[Slow Poke]

Well after several phone calls to the White Bros tech department and adding a quiet core, I am still not able to meet the sound requirements. So I have put the stock exhaust back on, I dont really like having a 500 dollar header and pipe sitting on the bench so I hope FTR is serious about the sound rules. Anybody want to buy a exhaust? enuff: cheap? I know it is the right thing to do though.

[pdavis]

i would run it till they tell me its too loud

[Shaggy EX]

I would put the quiet core in just to make it less noticable, then put it in the back of your mind. Because 96db is uncalled for.

[Albright335]

Phil has been reading up on the testing standards and procedures...

As Phil understands it - if the quad is tested at 200 rpm then there should be a one and a half decibel allowance. If it is tested at half throttle there should be a 3 decibel allowance. Did he understand it correctly?

It also says that the testing should be done in a quiet area...

Is FTR going to follow the standards and procedures of the doc you posted Mark or do they have another source they are following?? Or if anyone knows fill us in....

I guess these are some things that should be thought about...

Jen

[Luis]

the only day I saw FTR doing the test, there were quads and dirt bikes all over the place, not to mention that it wasn't an open area, there were and abulance next to the place the had the test, let see how the are going to do it.

[Mark]

Originally posted by RacerGirl47

Is FTR going to follow the standards and procedures of the doc you posted Mark or do they have another source they are following?? Or if anyone knows fill us in....

I guess these are some things that should be thought about...

Jen

The rule book states; “All FTR competition vehicles are subject to be tested in accordance with the SAE 1287-July 98 (or latest version) testing procedure (20” stationary test).”

From the searches that I have done on SAE 1287, the link that I posted is the latest version.

[ftrquad76vet]

I noticed dirtbikes built prior to 1987 are exempt, does that mean a TRX250R quad would be exempt too if it were built prior to 1987?
Also I just got my HMF full system on so hope that there is no testing no time soon!!!!!

[MARK CAMPBELL]

I say bribe the QS chairman

[ftrquad76vet]

Hope there is no need to bribe:cool:
it is also a quiet core HMF pipe:D

[pdavis]

i think that if you have a quiet core there shouldnt be an issue, even if you are over the 96 db level, it would be obvious that you made an effort to get it quiet

[mudnuri]

You know, the sound rule was a proposal that was voted in. Maybe a new proposal should be drawn up to make for a happy medium? Proposals get things done.
I am in no way trying to be negative or stir anything up. I just think that the level is too low. No one complained. It was a good club decision to try to keep from getting complaints. But 96? Whew! We are racing for a short period of time once a year for two days out in the middle of the woods.
If it sticks it will be a mind set that I have to break. I think of racing, I think of modified machines that are louder than you would get from a dealer. The reason being is for flow and proven performance increase.
But then it all goes back to some the top riders who can smoke most anybody with a stock set-up.
A lot of the riders that have loud set-ups do not place in the top.
AAAGGHHHH! This is a very debatable issue. Right now it sounds like they are serious. So at least trying to keep quiet should help and keep from making this a big issue.

[pdavis]

but my quad with the OEM pipe tested at 98 db according to the california testing, and a stock pipe is almost 94... what is the differance between oem and stock?, and since i bought the quad with the big gun pipe already on it... what am i supposed to do go buy a $350.00 stock pipe ?

[Mark]

First, I would make sure your packing is fresh, get the bike tested, see where you stand and go from there.

Take the testing results in Cal. for what it is worth. For me there were not enough tests done on the Dales to come up with a reliable average to go by.

[blaster01]

OEM stands for original equipment manufacturer (company that manufactures or assembles component parts of machinery or equipment).

The pipe and silencer combo that comes directly from the manufacturer and is the one tested to pass the federal import tests is the stock original equipment.

Hop up parts made by the manufacturer as after market items are in reality the same as all other after market products made by an outside source.

The bottom line is when the testing procedure is officially determined and done in a uniform fashion between all of the diffferent FTR series, make you changes then. Until that time, run with the quiet cores and fresh silencer repacks. Repacking for each race may seem extreme but just may be the answer for some systems.

Sounds to me like they are not trying to surprise anyone with this sound issue making it up to the riders themselves.

[pdavis]

so what you are saying is that, for examle, is if FMF made the exhaust system for cannondale (thats what i have) and cannondale used that as thier stock exhaust, if i went out and bought a full race system from FMF, that new system i bought would be an oem exhaust system?
the main problem i have with the cannondale is i am lacking about 18" of header pipe over any other quad out there due to thier configuration (head reversed 180 degrees) and replacing $15.00 of packing after every race just hoping that i might pass a sound test is crazy,

[Slow Poke]

I took my quad all the way back to stock and tested it in one of my pastures (open quiet area), it reads 95 db at idle and 101-102 at 1/2 throttle.My son has a Polaris Preditor 90cc and his reads 96-97 db at 1/2 throttle. I really dont understand how a quad can be that quiet to read 96 db at 1/2 throttle. It is discouraging to try this hard and still not be at level that is being required. I feel that being in the 96 range at idle should be good enough. the sound rules were made for places that see quad traffic daily all year. We are a traveling race curcuit on privateproperties not state lands. I also feel that this is not the firstissue we will encounter concerning the "cross over" rule book.I also agree that a rule change proposal should be made dealing with sound and quads. After all this is our curcuit / club and the rules should help the masses.

[Mark]

The Dales from the factory passed those tests, otherwise (if, from what I've read is correct) they would not of been able to be sold in the US.

Slow Poke Try the test again using this procedure: http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/pages/1140/files/j1287_199807.pdf

[blaster01]

Sound travels, regardless of where it is and what or whose property it may be on. Many of the property owners and their neighbors have expressed much concern about noise as has local goverment agencies. In fact, property owners from upcoming events have appeared at prior scheduled events to check out a number of concerns including the noise issue.

This noise issue has been a topic for some time and often discussed during both the saturday and sunday riders meetings.

Unfortunately, if you are unwilling to comply with the minimum sound issues you might be better off staying home. That goes for both two and four wheel racers. I think the sound issue is here to stay.

Check with your local club and see if they have any insight on sound testing program and see where that goes.

PDavis, yes anything other then the stock system when brought into the United States is OEM or aftermarket. Companies in the US must also meet those same standards in order to sell their products. Now, just what is the db level used to allow the quads and bikes into the US? Could it be higher then 96 db? Anyone know the real answer?

Also, I have heard talk from enduro riders that those case savers they run under their motors captures engine noise and brings it back and is heard by the rider. If a quad had protective case savers under its motor, wouldn't that be about the same thing? Could that lead to extra noise heard by the testing equipment and increase the sound level?

[mudnuri]

Blaster -
"Unfortunately, if you are unwilling to comply with the minimum sound issues you might be better off staying home. That goes for both two and four wheel racers. I think the sound issue is here to stay."
It's this kind of thinking that will ruin what we are trying so hard to achieve.(growing)
This sound level was brought up in a proposal due to FEARS of complaints. Not complaints.
A reasonable level may need to be proposed. That's all. If it were 98-99 I don't think there would be so much panic.
I don't know where you live, but where I live there is no ATV or Dirtbike allowed. FTR is the only way to ride except Croom and ONF.
So the thought of not being able to ride on my stock machine because some hard nose sound checker says "you are a couple to a few dB's over. Bye-Bye now. I can really see a big problem.
96 is too low. The proposal was made to follow what AMA says recreational machines should sound like in a park.
I know we don't follow GNCC rules, but that is the exact kind of racing we do. It is 102dB's. I don't hear about them getting shut down from noise issues.
I also want to add that when I am watching a FTR race. The sound is only for a few seconds and once they are in the woods you can't hear them. An airplane is louder. Heck, my Dad's tractor is louder.

[pdavis]

all i know is that i have a 300.00 slip on, becuz i race, and like the little bit of added performance, and i WILL NOT spend another 300.00 on a stock pipe to race, if i cant pass the FTR noise regs...no problem... that just means that the host club wont get my money and that would be unfortunate, i will show up to race till they tell me i cant

[Albright335]

Originally posted by Mark
The Dales from the factory passed those tests, otherwise (if, from what I've read is correct) they would not of been able to be sold in the US.

Slow Poke Try the test again using this procedure: http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/pages/1140/files/j1287_199807.pdf

I read this this morning...Under "A-1 Enforcement Testing"...it states that there is a 1.5db variation due to conditions...and if a quad is tested at redline speed (which I believe is half throttle) then there is a 3db variation allowed.

IF I am reading this correctly....that means if your quad tested at half throttle....then there should be a 3db tolerance added.

So......if you test at half throttle and it reads 99db...you SHOULD be ok.

Anyone think I have it right?? LoL!!

Merry Christmas!!
Jen

[pdavis]

jen, i dont know if that is right or not... but it sounds good to me... and i will tell whoever is testing that as well, and if they dont like it... i will tell them to see you eyebrows: :eek:

[blaster01]

When the FTR decides upon a standardized format and testing program they will let us know. Once that falls into position, and bikes and quads fail to comply, I don't see them loosing any sleep at night in lieu of a few or a number of people that fail to comply with the noise standards. The people turned away and the money lost is nothing compared to loosing entire programs and places for racing for non compliance. And yes, they have received complaints about the noise from neighboring property owners already.

Right now, my neighbors complain about a neighbor kid on his stock two stroke motorcycle riding around in his own yard making to much noise. To me it's not to loud considering how loud it could be.

The way I look at it everyone has to comply with all the issues and instructions not just me so that makes the playing surface fair.

Merry Christmas everyone and Happy New Year!

[mudnuri]

A leaf blower is 99 dB's. A chainsaw 100.

[Mark]

Originally posted by mudnuri
A leaf blower is 99 dB's. A chainsaw 100.

Yea but neither one of those are fun to ride! :D

[Mark]

Originally posted by RacerGirl47
I read this this morning...Under "A-1 Enforcement Testing"...it states that there is a 1.5db variation due to conditions...and if a quad is tested at redline speed (which I believe is half throttle) then there is a 3db variation allowed.

IF I am reading this correctly....that means if your quad tested at half throttle....then there should be a 3db tolerance added.

So......if you test at half throttle and it reads 99db...you SHOULD be ok.

Anyone think I have it right?? LoL!!

Merry Christmas!!
Jen

No half throttle. I think it is half of the redline RPM indicated on the tachometer of the bike. Say for example; looking at the redline on the bikes tachometer, if it is at 7000 RPM, then you would do the test at 3500 RPM. I think the reasoning behind that test procedure is to come up with a quick way of determining a test RPM for bikes with tachs. At least that’s the way I take it.

[pdavis]

but if you dont have a tach on your quad ( does anyone have one) what do you do ? tell them what the redline is ? what if you dont know it? i think that they are all around 9000-9500,

[Mark]

Originally posted by pdavis
but if you dont have a tach on your quad ( does anyone have one) what do you do ? tell them what the redline is ? what if you dont know it? i think that they are all around 9000-9500,

It tells ya here: http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/pages/1140/files/j1287_199807.pdf
:D

[mudnuri]

When I had mine tested last year, at Chipley I think, they had a tool that reads your rpm's from just holding it next to the engine. They had a guide of all the makes and models to know what redline was. They had a tool with a little stick and I think that was for distance. The tool read the dB.

Myself, I don't need any engine mods. I have a heck of a time just finishing a race. So what would a loud pipe for more whatever do to take the tired out of me? Nothing.
I am sad that others who may not be as out of shape as me cannot mod their machines as a race machine. Maybe I'm wrong but a free flowing engine helps to produce more torque. They will be louder. In the wrong hands it is useless. 96 dB makes it VERY hard to make any engine mods.

[mudnuri]

Originally posted by Mark
Yea but neither one of those are fun to ride! :D
And that, my friend, is the truth!
:D
Happy New year!

[Randy Futch]

So the original issue was if you have a stock bike that wont pass
what do you do? The stock pipe has been repacked but still no ush-hush. What on the bike could be adjusted to make less noise? Sould I follow one members advise and stay home :mad:
NOT!! . I really woudnt bet that every machine built passes the sound test prior to shipping. This post should be here to help other achive the goal of compliance, not to bash each other .

[blaster01]

Seems some people have problems reading between the lines. What I was saying if you don't plan to do anything or very little about the noise issue you are better off staying home. The noise issue is a real problem, not made up like some think.

If you don't think there have been complaints concerning noise then you need to speak to someone in the upper end of the organization or someone who was trail boss at a recent event and see what they have had to deal with.

Let's see, there's another race coming up soon. Someone contact the trail boss at Suncoast Trailblazers and see what he says about the sound issue. Even in a small rural area such as Florahome, (I think I spelled it correctly) they have noise concerns. They said on their web site they got some kind of permit to put on the event.

Sorry if someone thought I was bashing them, but I wasn't. I'm sure they will work with us on the sound issue as long as we are trying to reduce our own noise level and can show them through our efforts to do so.

[pdavis]

there is a call in to the trial boss... acually he is a relative of mine so i will get it right from the horses mouth, as of monday evening @8:20 pm he is on his way back from the property and he will return my call tues evening

[blaster01]

Sounds like a good plan.

[Nick]

Will my loud HMF be ok for this next race????? or am I going to get a DQ???

[mudnuri]

Hi Nick. Happy New year to you and your dad.
I will have an answer for you and everyone else, soon.
Right now it seems it is being blown out of porportion. But what else is new.
There are some machines that are abnoxiously loud. The riders know who they are. Do they care? No. Not until they are turned away.
It is human nature to push the envelope and test the rules.
So, are you prepared to ride in the event if the rule is enforced?
I still think it stinks. I will abide, but I think it stinks.

[Nick]

Well as of right now I have nothing to put on my quad to make it less DB's............ My big gun is broke and I need a whole, new one. So hopefully I will have a new one by the next race!!!

[pdavis]

i also have a big gun... which should be called "big peice of crap"
the problem is there is a VERY limited # of exhaust companies that make stuff for a dale, i know hfm still does and they also make the quiet core, so when i can no longer use the big gun i will have to go to the hmf

[Spectech]

I hate to tell you this but i also have a HMF, and all it is for a queit core is a spark arestor that you put on the end of your pipe and that still does not drop it to 96db's. The only way i have seen you be able to meet the 96db level is put the stock pipe back on and leave the little pea shooter in the pipe.

[Nick]

my big gun with just the spark arestor tested 97 DB's and with the queit core tested 94.... So iam on the right road but i just need to get a new one...........

[ftrquad76vet]

My stock pipe with the baffle in it was 95DB, Nick the big gun guys are pulling your chain on that deal 94db is more quiet than my little bad a$$ toyota you saw me driving the other day!!!!!

[Nick]

No it was 94........... maybe you need to get a big gun~

[Spectech]

I know when i had my HMF checked in chipley it was 102db'd and it was brand new.

[pdavis]

i had my quad tested at the palatka gncc 2 yrs ago and with a BRAND NEW cannister i was at 102db and i remember the testing guy told me that i needed to repack my exhaust, and i told him it had about 15 min of run time on the packing that was in there... and he said..." sorry to hear that, cuz you are at the hishest limit now"
all i am going to do is make an attempt to quiet the thing down, if i dont pass ... i wont race, but i dont see how they will be able to follow the testing procedure at a race when there is allkinds of bikes and quads running when they test... as far as the upcoming hs in palatka, the trail boss hasnt been told by FTR yet that they will be testing at this event

[ftrquad76vet]

I still say not A chance the QUIETEST AFTERMARKET PIPE MADE will not be able to obtain the 96DB sound limit, I know (or knew I have HMF FULL SYSTEM now) how loud my stock piped yfz450 was and have never heard anything close to it aftermarket!!!!
Munno check your sound meter again 94DB on the big gun is lower than my stock 450 with the pea shooter in it:confused:

[blaster01]

PDavis, thanks for the update.

[mudnuri]

I think if you are trying, you are in. They will be targeting the loud machines and giving them the option of trying or not. Try and you race. Next race you'd better try harder.
Read between the lines on this one people. No one wants you to not race. They just don't want the really loud machines to hurt us as a whole. If you are way over, you will be asked to comply. Just get it down. If everyone was under 100 I bet there would be no complaints.
Well we all know that's lie. Someone will always complain about something. enuff:

[Nick]

Will, when I got tested at HS number too I was 97... that was without the queit core, and i put it in one time it sounds lower than the yamaha!!!

[Tony Pitts]

all I can say is its going to be fun gettng all those big bored motors and ported heads to flow well with a pipe that only puts out 96 decibals . and nick big guns quietest pipe puts out more decibals than ftr is looking for , everybody get ready to buy lot of pipes or go back to stock or oem there both the same all the pipes that perform that perform well will only last one to two races before you will have to repack them to meet that low of a dec. rating